#111 - Messaging that Converts: Build the Pathway In Unstable Times

When the world feels heavy and unstable, selling can feel uncomfortable.

But clarity is a public service.

In this episode, I’m breaking down the difference between messaging and copywriting and showing you how to create messaging that gives your audience a clear path to walk, even in uncertain times.

You’ll learn:

• The difference between messaging and copywriting (and why it matters)
• How to build a clear offer pathway that converts
• Real before-and-after examples from a health coach, gardener, and dog walker
• Three types of content that sell (without hype or pressure)
• Why honesty and transparency are your most powerful marketing tools right now

If you’re navigating unstable headlines while still trying to run a business, this episode will help you simplify your messaging, build trust, and convert from clarity instead of urgency.

Want my Messaging Templates Google Doc?
DM me the word MESSAGE on Instagram or email me at hello@deborahcsmith.com and I’ll send it your way.

And if your offer itself needs refining, ask me about the Revenue Reset, my 3-week messaging and offer clarity sprint.

Clarity converts. Always!

Mindset to Market is a Luminous Creative Production. If you'd like to learn more about our business coaching program and group coaching container, please visit us online at DeborahcSmith.com.

Mindset to Market is produced by Deborah C. Smith and designed to inspire and support big-hearted creatives in finding their own unique path, building a sustainable business, and creating financial, spiritual, mental wellness and abundance.

🎉 Work with Deborah Learn More
💕 Visit Deborah online at DeborahCSmith.com
💕 Follow on the 'Gram. @deborah_smith_coaching

Transcript

 Right now, a lot of small business owners and solopreneurs and people working in the online space are asking themselves, how do I sell when everything feels so ha heavy and unstable? And I totally understand this. Um, but I actually think that's the wrong question. I think a better question. Is, how do I create messaging that gives people a clear path to walk when everything feels so heavy and unstable?

Because when things feel chaotic in the world, people are not looking for louder, you know, entertainment style marketing as much. When it comes to making a purchase, they're looking for direction. They just wanna know, what is it? Is it for me? What happens next? How long is it gonna take? Is it worth it if I do this?

So clear messaging is not aggressive at this moment. It's actually a public service. It helps people weed through the noise. So in this episode, I'm gonna share some examples of phrases and messaging that create a sense of stability for your client so that they can feel safe moving forward. Hey there.

Welcome to the Mindset To Market podcast, your go-to space for practical tools and solutions to the everyday challenges of being a creative and soulful entrepreneur living in a material world. I'm your host Debra Smith, a holistic business coach and marketing strategist with 17 years of experience. I help my clients bust through mindset blocks and learn daily marketing practices that balance personal wellness with financial growth and impact.

I'm here to offer you support with creativity, mindset, practical how-tos, and getting into imperfect messy actions so you can experience daily breakthroughs as you grow. If you're a purpose-driven entrepreneur building an online business, you're in the right place. Let's dive in. Welcome back in Happy Women's History Month.

I hope you and your family are okay at this time. Thank you as always for being here with me. Okay, so why are we talking about messaging? Well, I don't think I'm alone in saying that the world feels extremely heavy and very unstable right now. I admit, I'm a bit of a news junkie. Ever since my twenties, I've been tuned into politics and I make sure to listen to a variety of sources like NPR and the BBC, including, you know, following a bunch of independent journalists, but I consume.

A small amount of world news and global politics daily, and I think it's going to be informed, but I know that not everyone can do that, nor should you necessarily. But regardless of your news consumption and the volume of, of information, there's times like right now when it's pervasive and everything feels overwhelming and very dark, um, even for people who are not.

Necessarily tapped all the way in. So you know, when we're literally seeing images of war torn cities, airstrikes, ice raids, and families being separated, unnecessary deaths, you know, the reality is. That our polished brand messaging may no longer feel aligned with the moment that we're living in. Right?

And in these times it's really important that we are sensitive both to ourselves and to the the world that is out there, the audience that we can serve. Um, and we can start to question if it's appropriate for us to be selling and sharing our work in the online space because it feels inappropriate at times.

It feels uncomfortable, and that's actually quite normal. And I think you're right to be feeling that. That means you're paying attention. So, um, and I think, you know, that's the problem. I think this is even more difficult for empaths and healers and deeply mission driven. We're deeply sensitive people, um, who are truly in business to be of service and who are just highly sensitive to what's going on.

So I'm not here to pull the wool over your eyes and tell you that this is all gonna just be fine. Uh, but as someone who has navigated running a business during very unstable and heavy times in the past, I've, I've been through this a couple times, and so here's my very simple take. That is, again, not designed to sugarcoat and not designed to look away.

I'm, I'm about witnessing and participating. However, I believe truly that the people who needed our work before things felt unstable, need it more than ever. When the world does feel unstable. But a significant problem is that we are all very distracted and if we're paying attention, which I believe we should be, um, we're likely feeling some type of pain and discomfort with what we are consuming.

And look, I'm not interested in spiritual bypassing or faking your feelings. I will never tell you to put on a smile and get out there and sell your thing, right? I believe in healing and nourishing ourselves first, and fueling and caring for ourselves as a means to feel stable enough to be of service.

So, you know, if you're dealing with debilitating fear or heaviness from the things happening in the world right now. Please take care of yourself first. Reach out for help. Talk to someone. Get into a group of people having a conversation about this. No one should have to go through any of this alone. It is really, really hard.

So, but we have a business to run, right? We still need to find ways to create customers and make sales. So as a marketer, which is part of your job, your actual job is to build the path for people. Now, here's the thing, that's always your job as a marketer is to build a path for people. But it's just more important right now that that.

Feels stable, right? So when the world feels really noisy, your audience is not craving more hot takes and more vague motivation. And they're not impulse buying as much. They want clarity. They need a simple path to walk. And so a simple path looks like this. It's a clearly defined offer, a clear outcome that they can move towards.

Clear expectations about how that's gonna go. A clear timeline of how long it will take, and a clear investment of how much it will cost. That's it. Messaging that sells. Removes ambiguity, right? So let's talk about what that looks like in real time. Um, but first I wanna clarify the question between what is the difference between messaging and copywriting?

So your messaging is the meaning behind what you say your copywriting. How you say it, the actual words you choose. So you could think of it like messaging is the strategy, and copywriting is the execution of the strategy. So messaging, your messaging answers, who is it for? What transformation is being offered?

Why does it matter now? Your copywriting turns that clarity into words that move people to take an action. So if you're interested in, in digging in a little deeper with copywriting, you can check out episode 97. It's called Open Your Big Mouth, how to Write Copy That Converts with Taylor Dela Fuente. She is a master copywriter and a great example of how to choose words that.

Best represent your messaging. So messaging is the decision making layer. Copywriting is the communication layer, and they are two different steps. So that's why people hire a copywriter to write all the copy for their website because it's a lot of word choosing and it's a lot of work. So, okay, today we're talking about messaging and I just wanted to clarify that because I'm gonna use words to illustrate my points, but those words can be changed, can be updated, it can be interchanged.

It's the underlying message that we're focused on in this episode. Okay. So I pulled together just a few examples from past client work that I think can help illustrate building a clear path for people in the body of your messaging. Okay. Okay, so first up is an example from a health coach that I worked with where she had messaging That was pretty vague.

It was lovely, it was nice. So I'm gonna show you the before, and then we completely transformed it and it led to sales. So I'm gonna show you the after. So in the beginning, her content, her messaging, it read, it, read like this. Quote. Now, more than ever, we need to take care of ourselves by eating healthy and maintaining simple meal rhythms, which is a very nice reminder.

Like if I saw that on a, an Instagram post, you know, I would be like, oh, she's right. I need to take care of myself by eating healthy, but I'm not gonna go then take another, there's no step for me to take to work with this person. So it's too vague and it doesn't lead anywhere. So a clear path message.

Sounds more like this. This is what we actually crafted, quote, if you're stress eating every night because the news cycle is overwhelming. I got you. I'm hosting a six week metabolic reset program for five people. We're gonna focus on stabilizing blood sugar, building simple meal rhythms and reducing cortisol spikes.

This isn't a detox and it's not extreme. It's a structured reset. We meet weekly for six weeks and you'll leave. With sustainable plan, you can actually maintain so. Completely transformed, right? That's a huge difference. This second version, names the problem, names the container. It shares the timeline, the outcome, and it even differentiates that it's not what, it's not right?

It's not extreme, it's not a detox. So people can sort themselves into her offer and now people are saying, oh, there's only five spots. They know exactly what it is. They know how much space there is, and they can think to themselves, is this for me? Do I want one of those five spots that I now know about?

So when we have vague posts, like you know, now more than ever we need to take care of ourselves. Those are nice, but people do not make a buying decision with Nice to have. They make a buying decision with clear need to have, and so we wanna make sure that our messaging is clear and contains those components.

And again, she could have used any words to express that message. For example, she says, we'll focus on stabilizing blood sugar. Well, she could have said, your blood sugar's never been so stable. Or she says, you know, we're. We will focus on reducing cortisol spikes. She could have said, no more cortisol spikes for this boss, babe.

Like that's different words, but it says the same thing. So I just wanna make sure that we get, we all get that. Um, but it does what it has to do because it names the problem, the container, the timeline, the outcome, and a qualifier. It's what it's not in this case. So that type of message converts because it's just clear.

And here's the thing, you know, when we are out there in the internet attracting our audience and developing leads and, and considering how we're gonna invite them to work with us, we do want to be sensitive. We do wanna be. You know, thoughtful, but we also just need to be clear. Okay? Example number two is a fun one.

One of my neighbors is a gardener, and if you know me, you know, I am also a gardener. I love to grow vegetables. So she has a really fun, um, four week. Training that helps people figure out how to plot and grow vegetables in their garden. So she had, she was putting out all these adorable posts on Instagram that were like these cute spring garden pictures, and it said, spring is coming.

Let's grow together. And then she would, every once in a while, not often enough, in my opinion, she would say things like, get the backyard starter plan and grow your veggies with confidence. So that's nice, but I don't know what the backyard starter plan is, so I'm not really like thinking clearly about whether or not it's something I can purchase and growing my veggies with confidence.

I'm not really sure what that means. I mean, I guess that means I think I know what I'm doing, but again, I'm not making a decision of whether or not to buy her offer right now because I'm not, it's just not clear. It's too vague. So this is where we landed. If you've tried to start a vegetable garden before and struggled, I can help.

I offer a four week backyard starter plan. I'll come assess your space, map your layout. Choose five crops that will actually grow well in your soil, and set up simple watering schedule. This is not for people who wanna full farm, it's for beginners who want a manageable system. So huge difference right now.

Someone can self-select themselves. They know, is this me? Is this doable? Is it worth it? And so that messaging creates a really clear pathway for them to make a buying decision. And they don't have to think and wonder. They're not just inspired, oh, I'd love to have a vegetable garden. And then, then they scroll away, right?

Okay. My third example of creating a clear passage with your message is, um, a dear client of mine who has a dog walking company, and she is hilarious and she puts out really bold. I would say sometimes jarring content on purpose, um, but not, not crass or anything, but she would just be, she's really funny.

So she would post something with like a picture of a dog just like looking crazy and the type would say The world is a mess, but your dog still deserves the best. And I just am laughing because I love her so much, but that, that's hilarious. And it would get people's attention and everyone, she would get tons and tons of likes, tons of comments.

The world is a mess. My dog does deserve the best. You know, dog people, dog people are nuts. So, um, in a good way. So they love their dog so much. So she was getting so much attention for her content. But guess what, nobody was hiring her. For her con for her services because there's no offer that's clear. I mean, she would post her link to click on her website and she would wonder why all these people are commenting and liking her post.

But no one is clicking the link even with a CTA that says click below. It's like click below for what? I don't have time to click. Right. Nobody is clicking your link unless they know what is, where is it taking them? So we have to put it in the message what is behind this link? I'm not just clicking the link.

Okay, so we wrote out this message instead. If you're working long hours and your dog is pacing by 3:00 PM I offer structured midday energy walks in 30 minute increments. These are not chaotic group dog park visits. They're calm leash trained walks focused on nervous system regulation for the dog and consistent routine.

I take six dogs max per time slot. So again, she's sharing. The problem, the container, the timeline, the outcome, and also what it's not. And so that converts, right, because it's clear, and this was a big departure for her from her comic, you know, relief content. The world is a mask, but your dog deserves the best and things like that, which were cute.

But she wasn't making sales, you know? And so we can find a middle ground with the copy itself. So this is, this is where I again, want to illustrate that copy is what dresses the message. And you can change it. So she could take that messaging, that really clear working long hours. Dog is pacing, structured midday resets.

Not a chaotic group dog visit where they're gonna get riled up. It's a calm leash trained walk. It's gonna help them get in their reps, right? Get in their exercise during the midday so that you get. A calm dog when you get home from those long hours. And so she can still weave in some of those words that feel more like her personality and bring in the world is a mess.

Your dog deserves the best and weave it in there, but we need to have a clear pathway for people to take action, right? So it's critical that she's honest. She's specific and she's clear. 'cause that's what converts, that's what helps people walk forward, take a step forward, and make a decision. They can see where they're going.

Okay. And you guys, I created a Google Doc that has a a bunch of templates and examples of those templates in use for your messaging. Because I thought about this, I was like, these examples are great, but they're very hyper specific to my clients. So I'm gonna give you, if you're interested in getting your hands on that document, it's just, again, templates of how to structure clear pathway messaging, and then some examples.

DM me the word message on any social media. Message me anywhere, email me. I will put all the links in the show note to contact, uh, to contact me. But I'm not building a funnel for this 'cause it's just a Google Doc. I don't need a big, fancy funnel. Just hit me up with the word message and I will send it to you.

Okay? Now. I also wanna talk about types of content that I think are gonna help you at this moment. So part two here is three types of content that sell really well. And this is gonna work anytime, but I think it works better. In times of instability and so let's bring this back to you. How do you navigate this moment that we're in?

There are three types of content that I see really help to create those clear pathways and they all work for different reasons. So you could try sprinkling these types of content throughout your, your. Work throughout your ecosystem. So that's in your emails, in social media. Um, speaking on stage, if you have an opportunity to speak in front of a room full of people who may contain your ideal client, you wanna sprinkle in this type of content really anywhere, top of funnel.

I want you to try to make sure you're including these types of content. Okay? So number one is. What I call generous service content. I know that's not a very fancy name, but the idea is to shift from the mindset of having to sell or selling or sales into a mindset of service and really thinking about your ideal client who's out there in the world and needs something that you can help them with.

How can you illustrate that? In a very clear way. Right? So generous service content includes educational content, but here's the difference. There is a difference. It's, it is teaching something useful. Yes, but it's very important. It has to connect. To the problem that your offer solves. So this is where it becomes conversion based.

So you can just go out and teach three tips to, you know, write better copy, or three tips to, you know, set up a vegetable garden or three ways to calm your dog's nervous system. That's not converting to sales because you're just giving away three tips. What makes generous service content different is that you illustrate in the content that you understand the problem and your offer solves it.

So it's not just teaching, it's actually showing the way that you would solve the problem. Okay, so here's an example from my own marketing, my own messaging to illustrate this generous service content. So I have an Instagram post with a picture of. Uh, you know, whatever. It could be me, it could be something else.

And over it, there's a copy that says Three signs. Your offer isn't positioned clearly. And that might be the title slide of, let's say, an Instagram carousel, or it could be, you know, this could be done in a LinkedIn post. This could be done in an email to my audience. But then instead of just saying Sign one, sign two, sign three, I'm gonna set up that I understand.

They're a problem and I can offer a solution. So I would say sign one. I would say, you know what to watch out for. And then I would say, but it's worth it if you figure this out because benefit that lies on the other side of overcoming that sign sign. Number two, I would say what to watch out for. Right.

What is the problem that I know exists that you definitely are having? And but it's worth it because when you figure this out, on the other side of this problem is the benefit that you're chasing, right? So I'm showing not only that I get that their problem is real, a sign that their offer isn't positioned clearly.

Something to look out for. 'em. Also showing that a benefit on the other side of getting this right. And then, so after three of those, I would say, if this is you, I help women refine and clarify their signature offers. In a focused three week container. So I am giving them three things to look out for, but I'm not just saying tip, tip, tip, I'm saying problem and the solution that's on the other side of that problem.

So let me give you another example, and this is generous service content for a hairdresser. So they might say, if your hair falls flat by 2:00 PM it's probably not the product, it's the cut. Fine hair needs internal layering, not just shorter front pieces. So when I work with clients at my precision cuts, we design the structure of the cut around how you actually style your hair so it holds shape without extra effort.

So here's why. This is generous service content. She's, they're teaching you that it's not just the product. You don't need more gel or hairspray or a hair curling iron. Your, your hair needs to be cut in a certain way. Well, that's information that you might not have had. Did you know that fine hair needs internal layering?

Actually, I didn't know that until I learned this from a hairdresser. So. Um, and then it includes an illustration of how she solves the problem. She says, when I work with clients at Precision Cuts, we design the structure of the haircut around how you actually style your hair, so it's not extra work for you.

That's, that's sales messaging right there. That's illustrating the problem, illustrating the solution and how she does it. So she could just leave that as is and let it sit as a calm, you know, positioning her service as the deeper solution to an ongoing problem of people with fine hair, right? Or depending on the platform it's on, and the moment that she's in and the cycle of her sales, she could add a, a really clear call to action to it that says, you know, book your spring haircut now before spots fill up in April, and let's make sure you can, you know, ditch the heavy products or whatever.

And that would just depend on where she's at again in her own sales cycle. Okay. Moving on to content type number two. This is hand raise content. So this is where people self select. Um, this is where we post something out there on the internet and we say, Hey, if you're a. You know, person who, ideal client type with a specific clear problem, then comment, very clear word and I'll send you helpful tool.

So that's the basic template. So example would be if you've been posting constantly but you haven't converted a sale in 60 days, comment yes, and I'll send you my soulful sales strategy. Um, or raise your hand if you're making money, but you have no idea what you actually take home each month. In my Profit Clarity audit, we review the last 90 days and we map out what's happening so you can make.

Inform decisions about your time and your money. Comment numbers for the details. Um, right. So we're not begging for them to do anything. We're just inviting identification. Are you somebody with this problem? If so, say yes and I'll send you support. This builds real connection with people because when they say yes, when they raise their hand and say, oh my God, that's me.

I need that profit clarity audit. They say, I need your help. And so they, that's showing intent. So then you can warmly reach out to them with confidence because they've said yes to your. Identifier and it just opens doorways a lot quicker. So I love to do these a couple times a week on Instagram or sometimes in just whatever in posts that I do.

I definitely do it in my emails every week. It's just, if this is you and you have this problem and you want this solution, raise your hand. I will send you my solution and then you're in a conversation with them. That's a great way to grow your audience with freebies and or content that you're giving away in exchange for email addresses.

It's a great way to get into a DM conversation with people and then offer them a next step. Hey, if you wanna go test out this, if you're interested, we do this weekly inside my, you know, community membership. Come check it out. So they've already said, yes, I have that problem, and a yes, I want your solution.

Now your job is to say, great. Come on over here where we're doing this all the time, or, great, give me your email address and I'll send you even more. So this is where we bridge the gap. And another reason that I love hand raise content, besides that it works very quickly, is that it positions you as a leader because you're offering a solution.

You're quickly saying, do you have this problem? If so, I see you. Here's the solution. So. Play around with that. I will include some templates in my Google Doc and again, if you want that, you can just DM me message. Okay, you guys homestretch. The third type of content I think we should be focused on during unstable and heavy times is honest, transparent content for the love of God.

Tell the truth in your marketing. I, I know like, it's ridiculous that I even have to say that, but we live in the time of AI and where people have literal clones doing their marketing. So honesty and transparency are like gold bars. It's like, it's the, it's the new currency if you can be just honest and authentic, right?

Authenticity just means honesty. It's being willing to share your truth and be honest about where you're at in your process. Nobody expects you to be perfect. Nobody out there is like, oh, I'm gonna work with her 'cause she's perfect. No, they, they're, if they're desiring to work with you, it's because they think you can get them a result quickly and in a price range they can afford.

So saying things like, you know what, this program is not gonna make you rich in 30 days. Or, you know what, this program's gonna require you three to five hours. Per week of your time dedicated in order to get the result right, that's honest and transparent. This is not gonna happen overnight. There is no magic pill.

You could say things like you might feel uncomfortable doing this work. Refining your message might make you uncomfortable. Putting out a new message on the internet might make you squirm a little bit 'cause you're stepping into a new identity. That's honest. That's transparent. That's the truth. And you better believe every single one of those people I used as an example to illustrate the messaging, um, path earlier, they felt uncomfortable when they changed their messaging, right?

So I'm being honest. If I say to you, this might feel a little bit funny at first as you try on a new approach to messaging about your offer. But the proof comes in the pudding when you make more sales because your message is clear. So it's worth it, right there. It is. So it could be challenging for you, but it's worth it because on the other side of this discomfort is money that you make.

So honesty builds trust with people and trust builds sales. So I, I think honest, transparent content is super important right now. Um, I work with an accountant and. We worked on this just really direct, um, honest messaging. So she says things like hiring an accountant in April will not reduce your taxes if your bookkeeping has been inconsistent all year long.

So that's why I created the tax strategy program because you can start working with me in Q1 and tax time feels like a breeze. Um, plan before you react. So this is strategic messaging. It's not salesy, she's just telling you the truth. You can hire an accountant right in April to help you do your taxes, but that's not gonna reduce the amount you pay because your bookkeeping hasn't been, you know, off track for the whole entire year.

So she's gotta tell people transparently, this is not gonna, I'm not gonna be able to save you a lot of money if you hire me in April. Not what they wanna hear, but it's the truth. And I just practiced this with a great result. Um, I had a, a micro launch the last two weeks. In February of 2026, I ran a small micro launch for my foundations group coaching program.

So I hosted one live masterclass, just one. It was. The only time I was doing it, I was really direct and really specific about who this class was for. So I weeded out tire kickers and people who were not gonna be interested, and I said I would talk about my program right out front. I was like, this is going to be a great training.

You will learn and then I'm gonna share how I work with clients and how you can join me. I did not hide the pitch. I put it right out in front. Um, I didn't have a big, long pitch either. I didn't over promise anything. I just told the truth about the work required to build. A, an operation inside your business that automates lead generation and sales.

And the women who joined that call were all aligned. They were, it was a very small group of women. Every single one of them was a right fit for my program because I was just upfront and direct and honest. And so it just reinforced for me. And then I, I had great results. I had several women join the program.

I also, from that, got two one-on-one clients who decided they'd rather work one-on-one with me. So it was a highly successful, financially, it was a two week run. Very short-lived micro launch and I got four clients from it. So that's it. Clarity converts. It works like a charm. It reinforces that you are somebody that they can trust and trust leads to decision making in sales.

So right now we just wanna focus on clarity over any kind of. You know, performative marketing and messaging. So in unstable times in general, dramatic marketing feels wrong, right? It feels just not appropriate. Urgency in your marketing can feel really forced and or potentially unethical, depending on how it's used.

And being overly optimistic is gonna feel. Fake to you, it's not gonna feel right. What feels better than all of that is just being clear about what you do and who it's for. So when you say, this is what it is, this is who it's for, this is how long it takes, this is what it costs, and this is why it is worth it for you.

People can relax 'cause they don't have to do any searching. They have the information that they need and they can make a calm buying decision. So reminder, if you want a few examples of messaging that sells without the hype, I put together a Google Doc with some mini templates and some examples that you can try plugging in your business, uh, your offer and your benefits and things like that this week, and try some of these examples on your, in your own marketing.

So they're simple, they're honest, and they just create a clear path. And like I said, you can email me at hello@debracsmith.com or you can message me on dm me on Instagram and just shoot me the word message and I will send it to you. I will reply, um, I will put links in the show notes, but I, I find that people don't scroll to the show notes as much to click.

So if you want to get, I have links all over all my show notes for all kinds of stuff, so go check it out. And if after using those scripts you realize that your offer itself needs refining, but you're not in the market for a long six month program. Um, that is exactly what I've been working on with folks inside my revenue reset.

So this is basically a three week messaging and offer clarity sprint. And basically what we do is we focus on the offer to make sure that it's what your audience needs right now. And then we reshape the messaging to reflect that. So the messaging is conversion driven and it is pointing to something that is aligned with where people are at.

And so I've just opened up a few spots every month to support people in this type of container. So it's a revenue reset sprint. It's three weeks, and if you're interested in one of those spots, you can find me on the internet and DM me and get in there because it's actually really successful. I've. Had some great success with a bunch of clients now doing this work.

So I'm grateful for them, um, to help me build this little offer. Okay, in closing you guys, it's a really tough time to be marketing on the internet and that is not something that we should just ignore. We should talk about it. You don't need to be shouting, but also you definitely don't need to shrink away.

So, um, my solution is just. Build a clear path, make it really clear for people what it is that you're doing, how you can help them and, you know, serve them with generous content. Serve them with honesty and transparency, and let them select themselves. You know, like let them raise their hand and say, I need that, but, but you have to be out there to do it.

And so the way to get out there is just create messaging that that builds a very clear pathway. And then just simply invite people to walk that pathway. And you know where to find me. If you want my help. I would love to support you in, you know, keeping your business on track during these moments. So, um, please reach out and thank you so much for, for listening to this whole episode.

If you're still with me, I hope you have a great week, and as always, may you be vibrant.